Quick wit, complex rhyme schemes and an insanely energetic live show have made Verso one of the most well respected lyricists in the city. Despite being somewhat new to the scene with his first album, Audio Visuals, dropping less than two years ago, the young emcee's solo work and collaborations with the now defunct mega group Squadzilla have made him a familiar name to hip hop fans in the city. We caught up with Verso at University City's Copa, one of his old stomping grounds from the Squadzilla days, and spoke to him about his childhood as the son of Jamaican immigrants, his thoughts on his career thus far and his plans to unify the city under the banner of dope rhymers.
Phrequency: First of all, thank you for taking the time to do this interview. Could you, in your own words, introduce yourself for the readers?
Verso: No problem. I am Verso, a.k.a. Verse Mega. Hmm, in my own words? I am hip hop's past, present and future. That is basically it. I literally am hip hop. Born in Jamaica, came here with my parents at a young age, wouldn't be able to figure out I'm Jamaican if you didn't actually find out my history, and have evolved into this art form you see today.
P: What originally got you into hip hop?
V: Poetry. Poetry and rhythm. Snoop Dogg, Wu-Tang, Biggie. I was really drawn to the rhythms I was hearing but also not able to connect directly to the street life type stuff. Like I said, very strict Jamaican parents; It was the books, in the house and that was it. So, I'm listening to these songs always thinking I could do this. First I sort of started copying what I would hear, like I would remake a Jay-Z song, and then I started hearing stuff like The Roots, Black Thought, Common, Mos Def and I was like "alright, there's another way to go about this." Even the first time I heard De La Soul I didn't understand it and thought it was stupid, but looking back it was like "ok, there is a legitimate place inside hip hop for a voice that sounds like mine." That's pretty much how it happens.
P: Where did you get the name Verso? Was that something that was given to you?
V: Verso I chose because when I first started and was trying to figure out what my style was or what my rapping identity was, every other time I tried to write something it was a different topic, or a different rhyme scheme or a different emotion I was trying to express, so versatile was like I can do a lot of different things and I'm not really sure what I want to do and calling myself Versatile would allow me to do anything and get away with it. Rather than Versa, which sounded kinda sweet to me, I made it Verso. Later on I got Verse Mega. This crew I used to roll with, Squadzilla, they gave me that one, which is I guess half because of my rhyming ability and the other half because of my Jamaican heritage.
P: What was it like growing up coming from a different culture? How old where you when you came over here?
V: Three. I went back every summer, and when you walked through my front door you walked into Jamaica. My parents made it a point to let me know they're not American, so don't think you are because you'll get a third world ass whooping. We'd be out and you'd see kids talking to their parents however, and mine would look at me like "I wish you would! Go head, try it!" It presented a lot of challenge-I won't say challenge because as a kid you don't look at it as a challenges. Children are very adaptable, so I'm not thinking to myself "oh my lord, how am I going to adjust to such and such?" I just did it. I don't have my Jamaican accent anymore. I have locks now, but that didn't happen until after college. More than anything it allows you to be an insider and an outsider at the same time, which is a very unique perspective.
P: Speaking of Squadzilla, how did that situation come about and what happened with it? You guys were becoming a big force in Philly hip hop.
V: It's funny because that situation happened real fast. Basically, a duo known at the time as Red ID, which was Curly Castro and Inglish, had been in a crew called Bohemian Fifth. When they split from that crew, they decided to do their own thing and started making this mixtape called Ode To The Villain, which was a nod to MF Doom. They picked emcees that they wanted to be on that project and I just happened to be one of the people who got a phone call. I went through and did two songs and a posse cut. I guess they liked how the mixtape was coming along and figured they had a pretty strong group of people, so one day they called us all together and were like "we want to put this crew together called Squadzilla" and that was pretty much the formation.
It so happened that some of us already knew each other from roaming in different circles. As far as what happened to it, all I can say was creative differences at the end of the day. It's surprising to hear that it was such a big force because I don't think from the inside we necessarily felt it as that. I think we felt respect and admiration for each other's craft, but we didn't realize the impact it was making in the city and that people were noticing until it we broke up and people would come up like "yo man, what happened?" all heartbroken. We were like "I guess it was that big of a deal." I mean, it's no beef or nothing, just to speak for myself, most of us do still interact with each other and it's no problem to still work with each other.
P: Do you think there's any chance of a reunion?
V: I don't know, man. It's been kicked around before and I've been approached about being in several crews since then. My new stance on that is to naturally make music or do shows or even show up to each other's shows, and as that cohesion builds, it's easier to go on from that point. Let's say me and you decide to be a group and we put a name on it. If next week we find out there's something we don't like about each other, not even we dislike each other, but just artistically it isn't going to work for whatever reason and we say "alright, that wasn't too good of an idea." From the outside it looks like "aww, such and such broke up", whereas if we approach it like "let's just make some music" and we do the first song together and like it, then the next song and after a while just label something and put it out. Without labeling it, there's less scrutiny put on it and it can happen more naturally. I think if it happens naturally that all of us start making music together, and it sort of has because I have a bunch of songs with people from Squadzilla, since Squadzilla, and had people show up to shows and have shown up to people's shows. It was actually confusing for a while because people would see us all together and be like "y'all aren't Squadzilla anymore?"
P: Looking back at your first album, Audio Visuals, what did you like about it and what would you go back and change?
V: You know, you learn a lot as you go. I think, delivery wise I've matured since then. I've become more comfortable. I think I would market it different, and I don't know if I would necessarily put out an album by myself without creating a buzz. Well, I'm not going to say that because I had a nice little buzz, but I think now my approach would be to release a couple of singles going into the summer, and if the anticipation demands it, release the album after that. I think it's a little different when you put out the album and try to build off of that. What I've learned is that putting out the album itself gets you a lot of industry respect. People in the business look at the packing, see the barcode, see that they can go online and order it or get it from iTunes and see that "Yeah, he's on to something. He's about his business." and that's cool. What it doesn't necessarily get you off the bat is fans. It's like using a car to sell you a car. I mean, I would use magazine ads as the concept of singles, which basically get you hype to by the car or in this case the album. That's where I'm at with it now. I think I've earned enough respect with the first album to just drop things and see what works and kind of go from there.
P: Best case scenario, when do you see the next album dropping?
V: Best case scenario I would say February 2010. I mean, the very best case scenario would be that some of the singles i have in the bag right now catch on like I think they might and force me to come up with something faster than that. Right now I'm not holding myself to any particular theme when making music at the moment. Whatever I feel like is whatever I feel like. We'll see what the singles do and if the crowd demands it, I'll cater towards them a little bit more this time.
P: As far as promoting yourself and handling different aspects of your career, do you have a manager or are you mainly doing that yourself?
V: I'm not going to say I do it all myself because I certainly don't. I have a management team with one main manager, Los Infinite, and a couple of collaborative board member: Doc Martin, DJ Ambush my homie Cap and myself. Also, I get a lot of support from people from all over the city, like my main graphics cat Mars. No man is an island; there is no such thing as a solo artist. You might write those rhymes by yourself but the music is not going to come out if it's just you. Not when you've got to do a regular nine to five or go to school or whatever it is that you have to do else, until music is your only source of income.
P: Speaking of music being you’re only source of income, the nine to five, five to nine hustle is hard. Do you think there's any point where you would say, "you know if it doesn't really kick off by such and such date, I'm just going to do what I've got to do"
V: I think the approach to it might change. I don't think I'd ever stop writing or stop making music, but real life has to happen and bills have to get paid. There has to be a certain cut off point where you say to yourself, not I'm quitting or stopping, but I have to fall back and take care of some other things for a minute and if the opportunity presents itself, I'll come back to it. Thankfully I'm not too old and I have a little bit of time to keep pursuing this. I started doing this when I was in 7th grade, so at this point it's sort of a way of life. Some people smoke, some people drink. I write rhymes. I'm not going to get liver problems, I'm not going to get lung cancer, so there's no reason for me to stop.
P: You started doing this in 7th grade?
V: That's when the seeds got planted. I'll never forget they taught me iambic pentameter in school and I went back and broke down a Wu-Tang verse and was like "alright, I just got the tools to this thing." Not that you couldn't understand what was going on in the verse before, but I started being able to break down ABAB type rhyme schemes and that was all it took for me. Once I saw that it was over. I started coming with my own and experimenting with different things. There's no reason to stop.
P: What was your first live performance?
V: My first live performance was...I want to say in high school. First in an auditorium assembly and then for my senior project, I put on a show at the Free Library of Philadelphia. That was all my people, friends and people from school, so it didn't feel too crazy. I also had a live TV taping for a Comcast cable station, but there was no audience; that was just in front of the TV cameras. My first live show at an open mic was when I was around 18 years old. I was done after that. I got a real big reaction from the crowd, sound man cut the mic off and people got up and walked away from the stage. After that, there's no high...I said words that made people's lives stop for a second. Grown men decided to stop rapping and said it out loud like "I'm not rapping no more!" I now know I would have reacted different to that situation now; you're not supposed to stop rapping because the crowd reacts. It was cool. That actually answers your question as to what I'd do different on the first album. I would do my best to rhyme as if I was on stage. I feel like I definitely at this point rap differently on stage than I do in the studio; I connect more and I like to make eye contact with people in the crowd when I'm rhyming. It feeds that fire to make your point come across.
P: What emcees in Philly have you worked with and who would you like to work with in the future?
V: I feel like that's the endless shot out question (laughs). Who am I currently working with? I don't know, I'm kind of always in limbo. I don't have any set projects yet, but I'm starting to do that more with producers. I've been sitting down with Mars, my graphics designer who is also crazy with the beats and can rhyme his behind off. Some of the same people from the last album: Doc Martin, Equinox, Don Wil. I'm definitely looking for some new collaborations. As far as other rappers that I've worked with, there's always something on the table between myself, Curly Castro, Ethel Cee, Nickels, Dave Ghetto, The S Ence who is another producer, Fel Sweetenberg, the whole Break Bread fam. Have worked with Reef The Lost Cauze on the last record, will work with him again. Flight Bros. Like I said, this is an endless shot out question because it's really a small Philly community but I'm working my way into the other side of the game so like the Gillie The Kids or trying to slide through the Bat Cave Studio and Bat Cave Radio. Also, on the reggae scene in Philly, Vibes Express and Philly Dimes.
It's a process of paying your dues and earning your stripes wherever you go. I just met a knew friend named the Audible Eye who plays guitar while playing the drums with his knees. He has a regular kick drum, then he has a snare rigged to the floor with another kick and a stick between his knees and he plays all of them at the same time, while playing the guitar, while singing and has me rhyme over it. You know what, it's funny because it's like free styling where if you do it really well, people think you wrote it. If you're not looking, you would think it's just a regular band playing, so I'm trying to figure out how we would make it work so that even recorded we could make people understand what's going on. It has to be seen because it is incredible. I've only jammed with him a couple of times, but I find myself forgetting to rhyme and just watching the show and he'll be like "yo Verse you can jump in at any time" and I'll be like "oh, right, right". Philly has a lot of musical talent and I'm open to working with just about anybody. I prefer things to be progressive, if not uplifting than at least artistically progressive. I'm not telling you that you need to be intelligent or conscious, but at least be nice at rapping. It's actually more important to me that you be good at rapping that being conscious at this point. Call me bias, but I like good rappers. There are gangstas that can out rhyme any backpacker and there are backpackers that can out rhyme any gangstas. Just be able to rap and we can start from there. That should be a common ground.
P: You'll be performing once again this weekend. What's the deal with this show?
V: The Pear of Africa on South Street has had this event called the Zion Train going for a few years now and they just brought it back. One of the hosts, Aflow, just hollered at me about coming through and being the featured act. I actually never performed at the Zion Train as much as I've been there. That's going to be Saturday the 18th, just donation to get in, no set price or anything. Right after that I'm heading further up the street to host a party I do every Saturday at Fiso's with DJ Fat Cat. Fiso's is a regular top 40 club, and in a weird way it feels like it takes me back to traditional MCing. In the beginning of hip hop the focal point was the DJ and I'll I'm doing is hyping up the DJ and hyping up the crowd. It's fun. It's a good time.
P: What venues in the city have been your favorite to rock at?
V:We're actually in one. Squadzilla had this event called the Fallout in the basement. It had a lot of energy. I also like the Balcony at the Trocadero. The Fire. There's a bunch of em and I don't really dislike any of them. I prefer stages but they're not necessary. The Medusa Lounge, eye level, still the same thing. The Rotunda is a nice stage to be on. World Cafe Live, I won't say it's the best, but it's a real nice stage to be on.
P: As far as more mainstream artists, who would you like to work with in the future?
V: Well, despite comparisons, I still wouldn't mind working with Lupe Fiasco or Mos Def despite hearing that I sound like, not rap like but vocally, sound exactly like both of them. I don't think stylistically we're the same at all but I definitely think we're like minded. I would like to work with Q-Tip. The Roots; Black Thought is like the dream callabo. Common, Busta, M.O.P. I want to feel threatening just one good time so I need the M.O.P. collabo. There aren't to many national acts that I'd say I would just not work with. I don't know, I have a different kind of attitude and I'm open to everybody. My only thing is don't ask me not to rhyme, if that makes any sense. If you're going to ask me to be on your song, I'm going to do some stuff. Now if you don't do some stuff and you end up looking bad, that ain't my fault.
I think a lot of the artists we hear are watered down by circumstance. A lot of people judge like "oh he's wack, he's pop" but that song you might not like and it doesn't mean that the artist who put it out is completely reflective of that. Once you get inside the industry to the point where you see the videos and hear it on the radio, he or she is not fully in control of the content anymore. He's got to get things approved because a lot of people are putting these millions of dollars behind it. I'm not really opposed to any of it; my dream is working with Busta, Jay-Z, Nas, Eminem and people I grew up admiring and really enjoying their music.
P: On your first album, one of the singles was "Stuck In Our Ways" which talked about how Philly artists have trouble coming together. It's been a little while since you've put that out. Do you think you've seen more collaboration since then?
V: I have. I've seen it more, I've become more open to it myself and I think you can see places where it's worked out. It's still segregated though. Even beyond the cliques, there are sub-genres of Philly hip hop that I don't think are necessary. There's the gully dudes, then the backpacker dudes and the hipster dudes and the neo-soul rap, if that makes any sense. They all do their thing within their own subsets, but at this point I want to try to reach out to different parts of the city and try to bring them together that way. You might see a Dave Ghetto/Gillie Da Kid collabo if I get my way. If I become cool with Gillie, Peedi Crack and so on that side, I'm already cool with the cats on my side.
I feel like we missed it, but there were days when N.W.A. and De La Soul or Tribe Called Quest were on the same bill. You don't really see that any more and in my opinion that's what made hip hop live. I think in Philly in particular, there's a certain skill level of emcee. Whether you like the topic or not, there's a certain skill level that just to get respect you have to get to. Yeah, you might not like drugs and guns and random sex, but Joey Jihad, Gillie Da Kid and Reed Dollars are crazy at rapping. You might not be the most socially conscious dude but Verso or Dave Ghetto or Ethel Cee or Curly Castro can flat out rhyme. No matter what you want to talk about, we can rap.
The Philly rap community is good at rapping and once we agree to that as the common denominator, outside of your character on the mic, everybody does pretty much the same things. We're not that different at all, so I'm sure we can find common ground on subjects to rap about. We just have to reach out to each other. I'm in talks right now to hop on some of these hood DVD things like, why not? I'm gonna try to get some of these hood DVD dudes out to some live shows which I don't see them doing like that. Why not? Let's mix things up a little bit. Rap fans are going to respond to good rap music, period. I think we pigeon hole ourselves and minimize our fan base when we segregate. I don't feel like we're as different as people try to make us out to be. I know very violent backpackers and I know very intelligent gangstas. It's all Philly.
P: Trying to bring those various cliques together sounds like a pretty big challenge. How do you plan on doing that?
V: I guess I'm thinking about becoming a tour guide to the city. I feel like that's my next natural progression. Being that dude to not necessarily bridge the gap, but just going to different places and showing that there are different parts of the city that all accept me. It's not even just being an emcee and having a high opinion of myself; I think more people can do it than are doing it. It's not impossible. It just takes being open minded and being brave enough to go out there. Everybody isn't going to think you're the greatest ever, but I would think you would be hard pressed to find anybody that thinks Verso is wack. You might hear, "he's alright but I don't really mess with his type of music" and you gotta accept that. You've got to take that on the chin like "it is what it is", but as long as you can stand by your product and your skill level, I say go for it. Go to that open mic at the art gallery on first Friday. Go to The Gathering. Go to Tracks on 69th St. on Thursdays. Go to the gully hood cypher joints. It's hip hop, and most of the time you're not going to get shot. You're not!
P: Word, nine times out of ten you won't get shot.
V: Yeah, and that tenth time, just duck!
